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Post by gojays2007 on Aug 21, 2006 14:37:05 GMT -5
Assuming he finishes the year strong as he has been all season, was he worth signing this off-season.
He has been healthy, dominant and consistent this season. Not much more you can ask for, but I am not sure any closer could be "worth" the salary he got this offseason.
He solidified a very shaky bullpen, but would it really have mattered if a cheaper closer had been put in his place this year? We would have lost a few more games certainly, but if you don't make the playoffs, was it worth it?
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Post by robinhood on Aug 21, 2006 14:50:33 GMT -5
Great addition to the Pen, but not worth the 10 Million.
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Post by captainbolduke on Aug 21, 2006 14:55:26 GMT -5
This is a tricky question....
His salary almost negates the fact that he has been lights out all season long.
If they had a 90$ million budget for next season it would be worth it. Considering its not.... I am not too sure.
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jon
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Post by jon on Aug 21, 2006 15:29:11 GMT -5
Considering the closers we've come from I don't know how the signing can't be looked at as anything but worth it. Easily worth twice the cost of Miguel Batista.
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Post by jaysmaniac on Aug 21, 2006 15:33:23 GMT -5
Was he worth top dollar? yes. Can this team afford to spend top dollar on a closer? NO Part of Beane's philosophy in MONEYBALL, and I agree with it, is you can make a good reliever into a closer, and then sell him for high dollar. I love a good closer, and glad we got one, but for half price we could have a nice closer, and some extra money.
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Post by TestSubjekt on Aug 21, 2006 15:41:31 GMT -5
Great addition to the Pen, but not worth the 10 Million. Not to nitpick but... sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6294It is only $4M he's taking up this year, right? If so, yes, to me he was worth it this year and then some. I guess we'll find out at a later date that 'and then some' amount. |
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Post by manuel 3:16 on Aug 21, 2006 15:42:00 GMT -5
Batista probably scared Ricciardi into over-valuing the closer position. It's a shame Spieir wasn't given more of a look in 2005.
Still, it's hard to hate on B.J. given what he's done. Hopefully League and Accardo emerge as stars in the bullpen before Ryan regresses. He could be outstanding trade bait if he keeps this up.
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Post by jaysmaniac on Aug 21, 2006 15:44:40 GMT -5
4 million...a steal, but what does he make next year?
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Post by jaysmaniac on Aug 21, 2006 15:46:10 GMT -5
If we are going to spin it though, doesnt Burnett in theory make only 2 million this year? Which means, he really isnt over priced.
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Post by TestSubjekt on Aug 21, 2006 15:47:29 GMT -5
I don't remember. And please don't make me go back to that other place to check on will's thread to find out
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Post by TestSubjekt on Aug 21, 2006 15:50:20 GMT -5
If we are going to spin it though, doesnt Burnett in theory make only 2 million this year? Which means, he really isnt over priced. If that's really how much of the budget he's taking up, shouldn't we be looking at it like that? Because aren't those the numbers that JP is playing with for the budget? I doubt he's counting Burnett and Ryan out to be taking up $20M in budget room...when they're taking up $14M less than that. |
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Post by broadwayjoe2 on Aug 21, 2006 15:55:30 GMT -5
All conventional wisdom says that you average the total contract/salary of a player over the term of the contract.
Anything else is simply fudging the numbers and being dishonest with yourself.
Considering these are guaranteed term contracts with set costs, it's the only logical way to look at things.
Sure you can shuffle salary around, but what in reality does it accomplish other than superficially making the books look better in the short run.
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Post by jaysmaniac on Aug 21, 2006 15:56:44 GMT -5
broadway, yes that is the rationale way to look at it, but we have to be consistent if JP isnt using the numbers that way, we have to look at his way.
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Post by firstrounder on Aug 21, 2006 16:02:21 GMT -5
Totally worth it.
We've only lost 5 1-run games this year, compared to last year when we lost 30-something.
BJ Ryan is a big part of that!
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Post by 85Jays on Aug 21, 2006 16:39:22 GMT -5
I'll still rate it the way I did when it happened. A bit too much money ... but a very good signing if it was a 3-year deal. Questionable as a 5-year deal. But if I still want him at the end of 2008, well, it will have worked out. I still don't like -- check that, I still HATE -- five-year deals for pitchers.
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Post by Killtacular on Aug 21, 2006 16:55:35 GMT -5
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Post by TestSubjekt on Aug 21, 2006 17:15:33 GMT -5
Where does ESPN get their numbers?  $8M is getting close to my threshold for being worth it. But it is really nice to feel comfortable again late in the game, like I used to when Tom Henke or Duane Ward was entering the game. |
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Post by martinthegreat on Aug 21, 2006 20:40:09 GMT -5
Maybe a bit overpaid, but definitely one of the most valuable people on this team.
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mbow30
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Post by mbow30 on Aug 21, 2006 23:08:21 GMT -5
Worth every penny. Almost every WS winning team for abotu as long as I can remember has had a dominant closer.
05 Hermanson/Jenks(though they are probably the most suspect of the group) vs. Lidge
04 Foulke vs. Isringhausen
03 Looper vs. Rivera
02 Percival vs. Nen
01 Kim (suspect) vs. Rivera
00 Rivera vs. Benitez
99 Rivera vs. Rocker
98 Rivera vs. Hoffman
97 Nen vs. Mesa
96 Wettland vs. Wohlers
95 Wohlers vs. Mesa
93 Ward vs. Williams
92 Henke vs. Pena
Henke, Ward, Mesa, Wettland, Nen, Rivera, Foulke, Isringhausen, Hoffman and Benitez are all former league leaders in saves. With the exception of Kim, each WS winner (in bold) had a dominant season. The only suspect closers on losing teams were Pena and Williams (largely blamed fo rthe Phillies 1993 loss). I don't think this list can make any more obvious just how important having a top notch closer is.
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DrEasy
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Post by DrEasy on Aug 21, 2006 23:09:23 GMT -5
If JP "sold high" on him in the off-season I'd be very impressed. Other than Houston though, I just can't think of any other deep-pocketed team that might be interested. I'd love to get a #3 SP for him.
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Post by anne25 on Aug 22, 2006 13:48:47 GMT -5
If the jays hadn't fizzled since th AllStar break, then i would say that he is definatly worth it. As it is I still think he is what the jays need to be a contender in play offs. I just hope if theynget there in the next year or two he is stll as dominant as he has been this year.
As for his contract , it is a risky one, but then so is any long term contract. had he been sign for something like7-8 million per year for three years, it would be a better deal. Overpaid, but less risk and easier to trade if the team nosedived.
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gribble
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Post by gribble on Aug 22, 2006 13:50:50 GMT -5
You need an ace reliever and finding one who is good AND consistent year to year isn't easy. Lots of teams buy their closers and so did the Jays. They just happened to have to pay a lot of money because of the lack of options. If there were 3 or 4 other options in addition to Wagner and Ryan then I think the Jays would have had him cheaper.
I'm not sure they needed to add a 5th year to either Ryan or Burnett. They'd be under a lot less flack if they didn't do that. Doing that did clearly seperate them from other bidders.
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